Brian Freedman is a wine, spirits, travel, and food writer; restaurant and beverage consultant; wine and spirits educator; and event host and speaker. In this episode, host Jess Baum and Brian talk about the importance of storytelling in wine, the optimism Brian discovered while writing about climate change in his new book, and why terrifying owls and messy vineyards are good for business.
Brian Freedman writes regularly for Food & Wine, Forbes, and Whisky Advocate, and also contributes to publications such as Wine Enthusiast, Travel + Leisure, and The Bourbon Review. He is a frequent guest on news and talk shows around the country, and often consults as a sommelier and wine-cellar assessor. As mentioned in the episode, Brian’s #1 book Crushed: How A Changing Climate Is Altering the Way We Drink is now available in paperback.
Brian Freedman (00:00):
I love this idea that wine really is as close as we've ever come to a time machine.
Elizabeth Archer (00:21):
You are listening to The Soil to Soul Podcast, brought to you by Bonterra Organic Estates. Soil to Soul is hosted by Jess Baum, Bonterra's senior director of Regenerative Impact. Season two features accomplished and fascinating wine writers across the spectrum of outlets and backgrounds. Today's guest is Brian Freedman.
(00:42):
Brian is a wine, spirits, travel, and food writer; restaurant and beverage consultant; wine and spirits educator; and event host and speaker. Brian writes regularly for Food & Wine, Forbes, and Whisky Advocate, and also contributes to publications such as Wine Enthusiast, Travel and Leisure, and The Bourbon Review. He's a frequent guest on news and talk shows around the country and often consults as a sommelier and wine cellar assessor. Brian's first book, Crushed: How a Changing Climate Is Altering the Way We Drink, quickly became a top-selling wine book. Listen in as Jess and Brian talk about the importance of storytelling and wine, the optimism he discovered while writing about climate change in his new book, and why terrifying owls and messy vineyards are good for business.
Jess Baum (01:40):
Welcome to the podcast today, Brian. We're so excited to have you here.
Brian Freedman (01:44):
I'm thrilled to be here, Jess. Thanks for having me.
Jess Baum (01:47):
I'm going to start with the heavy-hitting journalism that I like to bring and ask you, why wine and spirits?
Brian Freedman (01:54):
Why wine and spirits? Well, it all goes back to my very early childhood. This is the part where I lie down on the couch and tell you about what it was like growing up in my house. I'm in this line of work because of my parents. My father has collected wine since before I was born. My mother is an amazing cook. And from the time I was about six years old, my dad would come home from work, drop off his bag in his office. We'd go into the kitchen. My mother would tell us what she was making for dinner. It was always something wonderful. And then he would take me down to the basement where he kept his wine and explain why he was pulling one bottle instead of another. Of course, I was six years old, so I would get whatever the smallest volume of measurement one can fathom for wine. I would get that in my glass. And we would sit there in the living room swirling and smelling and talking about it.
(02:48):
And I fell in love with wine. I fell in love with the connections that it provided, and I loved what it did at the table. I was the kid from a very early age where I would go through the stack of wine spectator magazines sitting by the coffee table, and I loved everything about it. So I blame my parents that I'm in this line of work.
Jess Baum (03:12):
You really just brought me right back to time I spent with my grandparents. My grandparents were also huge wine collectors. They had their own wine that they made actually in Mendocino interestingly. And we still have bottles of that today that my parents break out on special occasions.
Brian Freedman (03:30):
I love this idea that wine really is as close as we've ever come to a time machine. You can still savor and get great pleasure and profundity from these liquids that their hands help to make. If that's not time travel, I don't know what is. The way they connect us to a particular place, to a particular time, it's really astounding how that happens.
Jess Baum (04:05):
You recently wrote a book called Crushed: How a Changing Climate is Altering The Way We Drink. It was immediately a top-selling wine book. Congratulations on that. That's incredible.
Brian Freedman (04:16):
Thanks.
Jess Baum (04:16):
And the paperback edition will be released in April.
Brian Freedman (04:19):
Yes.
Jess Baum (04:20):
Climate change is especially relevant to younger generations. What role does storytelling play in appealing to the next generation of wine drinkers?
Brian Freedman (04:29):
I think it's critical. I grew up in an era where the most important thing for, call it a critical mass of consumers, was the number of points that a wine got, right? And certainly points can be a wonderful and deeply important guide, but it seems as if there is an increasing focus, and has been for some time, on storytelling. People want a connection to this liquid in their glass, and I think that the best way to facilitate that because not everybody is able to drop everything and go to Mendocino, Napa, Sonoma, Bordeaux, Burgundy, Doug Mosel, whatever it is, so if we can tell stories that create a sense of familiarity or intimacy with this liquid, then I think it becomes that much more profound of an experience. So I think this increasing focus on storytelling is a wonderful thing. I want to be clear though, point scores are very, very important, I think. I have lots of friends and colleagues who issue them, but I love the fact that even more those are being accompanied by really smart, compelling storytelling to go along with it. I think that's a great combination.
Jess Baum (05:50):
Marrying the quantitative and the qualitative and bringing both the quantitative measurement but also the qualitative heart and soul and story. I love that.
Brian Freedman (06:01):
Yeah. Because I mean, these are distinctly products of people, right? Somebody got up very early every day to make sure that those grapes were doing what they needed to in the vineyard. And somebody probably didn't sleep for four to eight weeks during crush and during that part of the winemaking process in order to facilitate the juice becoming wine, right? So these are inherently personal products, and I think we owe it to the people who actually grow the grapes and make the wines. We owe it to them to tell the stories behind the liquid.
Jess Baum (06:42):
Can you share a story told in your book that you found particularly inspiring, innovative, or compelling?
Brian Freedman (06:48):
Yes. So look, I say this all the time. One of the things that I love about the wine business and the spirit business is nobody really says, "I have to be in the wine business for a living." That's just not a thing that we hear. Maybe if your family's been making wine for 30 generations, maybe you're like, "You know what? I want to be an accountant. I want to do something different." In general, people get into this line of work, whatever aspect of it might be, whether it's growing grapes, making wine, writing about it, telling the stories, selling it, importing it, distributing it, what have you, because people tend to have this great passion for wine, there is a sense that I found while I was reporting on and writing the book, there is this sense of optimism, of deep intelligence that goes into the whole process.
(07:45):
Climate change is a terrifying topic. To claim otherwise I think is being disingenuous. However, I firmly believe that the people who do grow the grapes and grains, who do make the wines in the spirits are more than likely going to be the people who show us a path into the future as we deal with a changing climate because there is so much passion and so much intelligence and such a sense of open mindedness. So I think from 30,000 feet, that really gave me hope and a sense of optimism.
(08:25):
Now, if we're talking about particular stories, I wanted to give readers a tour of the wine world. So I focus on eight places around the world. I look at fires in Sonoma. I look at a particularly onerous hailstorm in Bordeaux that I was actually there for, which was kind of scary. And by kind of, I mean absolutely terrifying. I talk about that sort of epic storm two or three Valentine's Day weekends ago in Texas where people lost power and there were millions and millions of people without electricity.
(09:02):
One of the stories that I found the most visceral for me is we were at a producer in Israel. This is in the summer of 2021. We threaded the needle between, I think it was the Delta variant and the Omicron variant of Covid. So we were at this winery called Tabor. And this winery, we were there with the agronomist and a woman named Michal Ackerman, and she said, "Okay, everyone, look at the ground underneath your feet." We looked down in the vineyard and it was writhing with insects, all these sort of beneficial insects. They were just everywhere. She said, "Okay, I'm going to show you a picture on my phone now." And she brings up a photo on her phone and it was a screenshot from a night vision motion activated camera that they have in one of their vineyards, and it was of an owl. The owl was sort of staring with that blank Hannibal Lecter-esque stare, and it had what looked like blood dripping down its face feathers right underneath it's beak.
(10:11):
We said, "Okay, it's like 8:30 in the morning, Michal. Why are you showing us this terrifying owl on a night vision camera?" And she said, "Because this was the sign that we needed." I said, "Okay, what's the story here?" The story is when she got there, right when she got to Tabor, the vineyards looked the way vineyards did around the world in the '80s, '90s, early 2000s. And you remember this Jess, you'd go to Italy and there'd be postcards of perfect rows of vines with nothing between them. You are like, "Wow, that's beautiful," right? Except that's not beautiful. That's nature completely denuded of life because nature hates a vacuum. So to have those perfect rows with nothing between them, you got to dump lots of chemicals, lots of herbicides, pesticides, what have you between them to maintain that.
(11:03):
So when she got there, that's kind of what it looked like. And over the course of the years, she began transitioning the vineyard from that into a whole healthy ecosystem approach. When she finally saw on that night vision motion activated camera this owl had come back, that's one of the apex predators, which told her that the owl is back so its prey has returned. And that prey's prey has returned and so on and so forth. The wines improved. The land was healthier, it was better for everybody. So that to me was sort of an impactful moment, understanding that.
Jess Baum (11:47):
What a cool story.
Brian Freedman (11:48):
It was amazing. And that's the kind of thing that I love about people in the wine business, right? To say, "I'm going to take this giant tract of land and completely change the way it's been farmed for the last 10, 20, 30, 40 years, wherever you are" and take that risk, that's tremendous. But ultimately, it's better for everybody involved and it's better for the consumer because the liquid itself improves and it's also more intimately tied to that land.
Jess Baum (12:18):
Absolutely. It's a pure expression of the ecology, of the life of nature itself rather than some sterile manufactured version of it.
Brian Freedman (12:28):
That's right. And that's why we drink wine, right? If wine was just some sterile manufactured thing, and there are plenty of sterile manufactured wines out there, we all know that, but when it comes to real wine, when it comes to good wine, and good wine can be 15 bucks a bottle, it could be 1,500 bucks a bottle... I tend to think that 1,500 bucks a bottle is so much better when someone else buys it and shares it. But good wine is all about being tied to where it's grown, to the people who are making it. And if that wasn't the case, then we really wouldn't care about the difference between cab in Mendocino or Napa or the left bank of Bordeaux. It would just be some platonic ideal of cab, but that's awfully boring, right? We want it to be tied to a place.
Jess Baum (13:19):
Your book was a lightning rod in the industry, really shifting the discussion of climate from the wings to center stage. As the trailblazer for this wine climate change conversation, did you encounter resistance initially from wineries, publishers, or anyone else?
Brian Freedman (13:36):
I'm flattered and take issue with you calling me a trailblazer. I think there's so many people who have been shining such an important spotlight on this for long before I wrote this book. I think we all owe them such a deep sense of gratitude, because the truth is right now, I wrote this book at a time where it was undeniable that climate change was happening, but I think there are some really brave people out there who for a long time were trying to sound the alarm often at great personal expense, at people saying, "You're crazy. What are you talking about?" So I'm just glad that if my book helped tell these stories that led to some discussions about this and maybe distilled it a little bit in a way that helped convey the seriousness of what's going on, then that's the greatest thing you could ever say to me. So thank you, Jess. I'm ending this conversation now because this is the peak. That's the greatest compliment. It’s downhill from here.
(14:38):
So no, I mean, look, when I did start speaking with producers and telling them what I wanted to do with this book, absolutely, I mean, plenty of people said, "We hope that this just a drumbeat of negativity and terribleness." I said, "Look, this is going to be a book that tells honest stories. I don't want to sand down the rough edges of the reality of this. I think that would be doing everyone a disservice." But at the same time, I made sure to say that I want to tell the stories not just of how climate change is adversely affecting the world of wines and spirits, but also the ways in which the people who are involved in this amazing business are pivoting and finding a way forward. So that was, I think once I reassured people, people were so giving and so generous with their time, with their stories, I'm still in awe of how people really came together and helped me by just being so honest with what they're dealing with.
Jess Baum (15:44):
What a beautiful perspective. The climate crisis is the most daunting, the most depressing, the most anxiety provoking challenge of our times, and the human brain can only handle that so much. And so bringing some inspiration, bringing some levity to the conversation to allow for it to move forward is so critical.
Brian Freedman (16:06):
Climate change is one of those topics that like so much else has become a politically fraught point of discussion. What I have discovered is that wine and spirits are a lens through which we can look at climate change, at the climate crisis, and it breaks through whatever barriers, whatever political barriers, preconceived notions people might have, and it opens up a dialogue. It opens up a constructive conversation. And I jokingly, but not jokingly, often say, "You can have people who don't really believe that climate change is a thing, but once you tell them that it's going to have an impact on their wine, they're listening and then it becomes a problem," right? So it's a great discussion opener and conversation and political leveler, and that's an amazing and rare and precious thing right now.
Jess Baum (17:01):
It is so important that we depoliticize the conversation about the climate crisis and talk about it for what it truly is, which is a threat to humanity.
Brian Freedman (17:12):
Yes. That's so important with what Bonterra is and really bringing not just the stories of what you're doing, but also this delicious wine that is very much a product of these ongoing efforts. I mean, you guys have been at this for longer than some people have been alive who can now consume wine.
Jess Baum (17:32):
This is true. We certainly believe deeply in these practices. I want to really focus for a moment on the conversation around the climate crisis and its impact on humans, on humanity. You happened to be visiting Napa in 2018 when the campfire started, which claimed the lives of 85 people and was the deadliest and most destructive fire in California's history. That experience was the impetus for your book, and the first chapter is called the Scorching of California's Wine Country. Bonterra Organic Estates Vineyards in Mendocino County have so far been spared, but fires have come so close that we've had to evacuate and have dealt with smoke taint over the years. How did that experience change your outlook on wine and on life?
Brian Freedman (18:19):
I had been thinking about climate change and its more frightening impacts for a while. This really just crystallized it in a frightening way. So one of the big perks of what I do for a living is I get to travel the world. I am often out of the country a week out of every month. If I'm not, then I'm somewhere usually on the West Coast, Pacific Northwest. It might be Kentucky, Texas. And I get to have these very long wine and or spirit soaked lunches and dinners with people in this industry. And over the years, I had noticed that what began as sort of throwaway comments from the people who grow the grapes and grains or make the wine of the spirits, throwaway comments about, "Yeah, the weather was kind of weird this year" or, "Yeah, we've had a couple of strange vintages, but I'm sure things will be better." And those over the years morphed into much more serious conversations about long-term shifts that people were seeing.
(19:30):
With the wine business, it's always been that past experience can help be a guide to the future, right? If you haven't seen a vintage like you're having right now, you can just go back in the record books, especially if you're making wine in a place like Burgundy or Bordeaux and say, "Okay, we must've had an equivalent vintage of this in the past. How did they handle it?" And things have gotten so weird with the climate that that's not always possible now. So I had noticed the conversation and the intensity of it shifting.
(20:04):
In 2018 when this happened, it was really a fascinating 24-hour period where we were staying at this beautiful resort. I woke up in the morning and there was no electricity. There was no hot water, so I grumpily... And I write about this in the book. I grumpily put on my bath robe and fuzzy slippers that were provided for me. It was quite a scene. I sort of stomped my way to the front desk, and there were other grumpy people in fuzzy slippers and bath robes. The person at the front desk said, "Yeah, apparently, PG&E had to shut down power. There's apparently some fire that kicked up last night." I said, "Okay, so this is annoying, but clearly something else is going on here." By the end of that day, the sunset was eerily beautiful, and we found out that that was because of the particulate matter that had blown in from this fire. When I got home the next day, I turned on my phone as the plane was taxiing to the gate at Philly International Airport and saw that this fire had just completely exploded while I was in the air.
(21:14):
That really was the kernel of this idea that I need to take a deeper dive into this, but I need to tell these stories in a way that they are accessible to people who are not necessarily in this line of work, who don't necessarily have scientific backgrounds because these stories are so important to tell. And that was really, you're right, that was the kernel of the whole thing.
Jess Baum (21:41):
It's scary how many of us are having these frightening wake-up calls.
Brian Freedman (21:46):
Even here on the East Coast, right? I run marathons slowly, but I finish and then I have a pastrami sandwich for lunch and Popeyes for dinner. Long story. That's my tradition. Popeyes and champagne, that first night replenishes everything. But this summer, there were several stretches where I had to take breaks from training outside because the smoke from the wildfires in Canada had made the air quality so poor here in Philadelphia that I couldn't run outside without hacking and coughing the whole time. That's not normal. That's not okay. And that's climate change.
Jess Baum (22:25):
Visiting my parents in the place that I grew up, I can see the way that these extreme events have changed dramatically over just the last 35 years. And to be able to see a climate changing in your lifetime as a young person is just wild and not normal.
Brian Freedman (22:43):
No. And the rapidity with which it's happening, that acceleration, it's what's really forcing everyone to sort of sit up straighter and say, "Okay, this is a problem. What can we do?"
Jess Baum (23:08):
Brian, you do a ton of wine writing. And you're also interviewed regularly on TV and in major print outlets. You consult as a sommelier on high-profile restaurant wine lists. You do wine seller assessments for private collectors and insurance companies. And you host events all over the country, including a Cultivating Conversations dinner on behalf of Bonterra Organic Estates last year. How do you keep your perspectives fresh?
Brian Freedman (23:35):
I think because I'm lucky enough to get to constantly speak with consumers, with producers, to be exposed to ideas around the country and around the world. If I'm not staying fresh and constantly absorbing new perspectives, then I'm just not doing my job because I'm lucky enough to get to do that for a living. I am constantly exposed to other ways of looking at things, other bases of experience. That's one of the ways that I can stay fresh. Also, I don't sleep.
Jess Baum (24:13):
Would you recommend that as a way to keep things fresh for the rest of us?
Brian Freedman (24:17):
That's it. No sleep. Lots of espresso.
Jess Baum (24:21):
Amazing. When you think about the future of wine writing, what interests you most and what concerns you most?
Brian Freedman (24:28):
What interests me most are the stories. I am so lucky that I am privileged enough to do a lot of writing. And just being able to tell those stories, to be able to take deep dives into the world of people who are maybe experiencing some aspect of this industry in a different or unexpected way, I think that's a beautiful thing, right? Because at the end of the day, it's about humanity and it's about connection, right? It's been said a million times before. You can have people who fundamentally disagree on practically anything, but if you sit them down at the table and pop open a bottle of wine or throw a good bottle of bourbon in the middle, or even better, a bottle of wine and a bottle of bourbon, chances are it will bring you together. It will get conversation flowing, and I think maybe some sense of understanding can result from that. The increasing focus on storytelling is a wonderful thing.
Jess Baum (25:33):
I wonder what the role of AI is in journalism and in wine writing. And do you think that AI is coming for wine writers?
Brian Freedman (25:42):
No, and I will tell you why. AI, I think, is something that we're all going to have to figure out how to live with and control. And boy, do I hope we can always control it.
Jess Baum (25:55):
Oh, yes.
Brian Freedman (25:57):
But in my experience, I have gotten a number of press releases that clearly have been written with the help of AI, and they're soulless so far, right? They read like the boilerplate in a contract. Now, will that change? I wouldn't be surprised if that changes because AI seems to be able to absorb information and "learn" at an increasingly terrifying clip. But I think that just like I don't see AI creating works of literature that have that same level of visceral and emotional impact that actual human writers do, I don't see AI being able to convey much more than the basics of a producer's story, right?
(26:52):
AI can't go out there and talk about how the sun climbing in the morning at a vineyard started to burn off the fog, and that chill, that sort of stippled your skin with goose flesh turned to a warmth, right? AI can't do that because AI is a decentralized computer system somewhere. You can't drop a mainframe between the rows of a vineyard. So I don't see AI being able to bring you to a place, to bring you into another world. I'm not super concerned about it, and I think that we're learning to live with it, but I don't think it's coming for wine writers. No.
Jess Baum (27:31):
I wouldn't think so either. And that is why we named this podcast Soil to Soul, because we wanted to honor the process of wine growing and the soul that it brings and how it connects people from soil to soul and to one another. And computers just can't do that.
Brian Freedman (27:50):
No, not at all. That human aspect is really irreplaceable.
Jess Baum (27:58):
Thank you so, so much, Brian, for joining us today. This was a fabulous conversation.
Brian Freedman (28:03):
It was a great conversation. Next time, we're going to book out five hours and we'll be good to go. I'll have cocktails and a good bottle of wine here.
Elizabeth Archer (28:32):
Thank you for listening to The Soil to Soul Podcast, hosted by Jess Baum, and produced by me, Elizabeth Archer, right here in Mendocino County on behalf of Bonterra Organic Estates, the largest regenerative organic winery in the United States. To learn more and to get 20% off your wine order, visit bonterra.com and use the promo code SOILTOSOUL.
(28:55):
We're especially proud of our estate collection, comprising four affordable and exceptional regenerative organic certified wines from our Hopland Vineyards in Mendocino County. Original music for the podcast was composed by Mendocino County musician, Julian Sterling. Thanks again to today's guest, Brian Freedman. As mentioned in the episode, Brian's top-selling book, Crushed: How a Changing Climate Is Altering the Way We Drink, is now available in paperback.
(29:22):
If you liked this episode, please rate, review, and share our podcast to help others find it too. Next week on the podcast, we'll talk with Wanda Mann, east Coast editor of the SOMM Journal and The Tasting Panel, and founder of Wine with Wanda. See you then.