In this episode, host Jess Baum and guest Kathleen Willcox discuss the difference between organic and ethical food and drink; the importance of breaking out of our silos and building inclusivity into the wine industry; and what makes for an inspiring person in 2024. They also talk about Kathleen's book and the evolution of New York's wine regions.
Kathleen Willcox is a journalist who writes about sustainability, wine, spirits, travel, and food. She has written for Wine Enthusiast, VinePair, Wine Searcher, The Drinks Business, and Modern Farmer, and coauthored the book Hudson Valley Wine: A History of Taste & Terroir. To learn more about Kathleen, find her on LinkedIn and Instagram @kathleenwillcox.
Kathleen Willcox (00:00):
The wine industry has gone above and beyond what other major industries have done in terms of encouraging really progressive education.
Elizabeth Archer (00:26):
You are listening to the Soil to Soul podcast, brought to you by Bonterra Organic Estates. Soil to Soul is hosted by Jess Baum, Bonterra's Senior Director of Regenerative Impact. Season 2 features accomplished and fascinating wine writers across the spectrum of outlets and backgrounds. Today's guest is Kathleen Willcox, a journalist who writes about sustainability, wine, spirits, travel, and food. Kathleen has written for Wine Enthusiast, VinePair, Wine-Searcher, The Drinks Business, and Modern Farmer, and co-authored the book Hudson Valley Wine: A History of Taste & Terroir. Listen in as Jess and Kathleen discuss the difference between organic and ethical food and drink, the importance of breaking out of our silos, building inclusivity in the wine industry, and what makes for an inspiring person in 2024. They also talk about Kathleen's book and the evolution of New York's wine regions.
Jess Baum (01:31):
Hi, Kathleen. Thank you so much for taking the time to come and chat with me today.
Kathleen Willcox (01:36):
Hi, I am excited to be here.
Jess Baum (01:39):
I am going to dive right in. Why wine?
Kathleen Willcox (01:43):
It's a long story. I have always been a writer since I graduated from college, and it was really a matter of finding the right beat for me. My first job was working at a local newspaper. I lived with my parents at the time. It was super glamorous, and then I finally got a job working in New York City, which was my ultimate goal, but it was writing about finance, which, at the time, I was not thrilled with, but in retrospect, it helped me, first of all, understand business, the economy, and also, it helped me understand how to write about data in a way that's interesting. I did that for about five years, and during that time I was freelancing and looking for different ways to write about things that actually interested me. At that point, I fell into wine writing, and it ended up being something that I really loved and that I clicked with. I found, contrary to what you might expect, wine writing and the wine industry in general is not elitist. It's very welcoming. People want to share their knowledge with you, and I found that very interesting.
Jess Baum (02:53):
From finance to wine.
Kathleen Willcox (02:56):
Yes, quite a leap.
Jess Baum (02:58):
Speaking of data and writing about data in a meaningful way, you write about and are passionate about sustainability issues and the business of making ethical food and drink. From your perspective, what makes a food or drink ethical?
Kathleen Willcox (03:13):
At this point, my definition has changed. I would say when I got started, I really thought a lot about how it was farmed, and of course that plays into it now. Ideally, in a perfect world, it's organic and it's biodynamic even, or at least with some of those practices, but as I've learned more about the industry and just seen more, I think Black Lives Matter was a huge wake-up call in a number of different ways for a lot of people. It made me realize that, also, the way you treat people is important. Another thing, just learning a lot about sustainability. If you look at winemakers in France and in Europe who have had Roundup banned for many years and the links to water pollution and cancer and all kinds of things that have been established by courts and billions of dollars worth of lawsuits have been paid out, it really incorporates a lot of human rights and community rights.
(04:23):
So I think it all has to go hand in hand, and now it used to be, 10 years ago, if I went to the store and I was looking for fruit, I would buy organic strawberries because I would know that that meant that it wasn't going to leak into the skin. But with pineapples, maybe I wasn't as worried because I knew that the hard shell would keep the actual fruit safe. But then you start thinking about the people, and you realize that buying correctly farmed and ethically farmed food and drinks also means that the people are being treated in a more just way, which I think we all want.
Jess Baum (05:05):
I always find that it's so interesting that when we talk about sustainability, the first thing that comes to mind is the green movement and environmentalism, when really the earth is going to be fine with or without us. What we're trying to sustain is human life, and we can't do that without addressing the social.
Kathleen Willcox (05:23):
Absolutely. Human beings, we're the ones who are honestly more endangered than the earth. Yes, there's an extinction crisis, and the localized pollution is terrible, but in the end, if we kill ourselves, the earth will recover, but we have to do it for all of us.
Jess Baum (05:44):
I love your perspective on the Dirty Dozen. Those 12 fruits and vegetables that we were taught many years ago are the most important to purchase organic because, you're right, that doesn't take into account the pineapple farmers or the orange farmers.
Kathleen Willcox (06:00):
Exactly, and the people who live in the communities around them too.
Jess Baum (06:04):
Absolutely. Not just the people who are working on the farms, but those who live downstream. Really, earth is a closed system, so we're all downstream from everything.
Kathleen Willcox (06:14):
That's very true.
Jess Baum (06:16):
One thing that we love about regenerative organic certification, which we have for 100% of our estate vineyards, is that it addresses social fairness as a pillar. It posits that something cannot be regenerative if it is not having a regenerative effect on the people who farm. So you've touched on something that's certainly close to our hearts.
Kathleen Willcox (06:39):
It's really inspiring to see the Regenerative Organic Movement flourish, and I think that you're exactly right. It does incorporate more, and in the last year or so, there's been an increase in awareness, and I'd love to hear from you if you feel like consumers and wine lovers are starting to understand what that certification means.
Jess Baum (07:02):
That actually brings me to my next question for you, which is, do certifications matter? And I'm happy to share my opinion too. I was recently interviewed by the drinks business and was quoted saying that it's the Wild West for regenerative ag right now, and there are so many certifications. So, from your perspective, do they matter?
Kathleen Willcox (07:23):
I do think they matter, and I think whether it's fair or not that some matter more than others, USDA Organic, Demeter Biodynamic, and Regenerative Organic, those are the ones that I personally look for. Again, my answer has changed because five or 10 years ago, I would've said, "It doesn't matter. What matters is what you do." But really, people now need to know. We all know that there have been so many instances of greenwashing and people saying, "Oh, it's sustainable." Or even local sustainability certifications where Roundup is okay, herbicides are okay, and labor practices aren't even under the microscope. So those are, in my mind, the big three, but I think that all certifications do matter and people care, and if you're vegan, you want to know that your wine was not made with any animal products, and that's an important certification for you. I think it depends on the buyer, on what's going to resonate with them the most, but everyone knows what matters to them.
Jess Baum (08:31):
We like to say that our certifications are our promise to the consumer and our invitation to verifiers to look under the hood and ensure that we're doing what we say we're doing.
Kathleen Willcox (08:43):
I completely agree, and I live in upstate New York, and at the farmer's market, for example, there are a lot of producers who say, "We farm organically, but we can't afford the certification." And in some cases, I think if you're farming an acre of potatoes, that's legitimate, but if you're nationally distributed and you are a wine brand, it's a few thousand dollars and it's a lot of paperwork, but then you know that the customer knows what they're getting.
Jess Baum (09:15):
I really appreciate that. You have said multiple times now that your perspective has shifted over the last few years. I was such a purist for so long, and I am beginning to understand that sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good, and progress is what's needed. Everybody has to start somewhere, and scalable solutions are so critical. Not everybody can start out being Regenerative Organic Certified. There has to be an entry point and a spectrum, and it has to be about moving everybody down the spectrum farther and as fast as we can.
Kathleen Willcox (09:53):
Absolutely.
Jess Baum (10:05):
As far as sustainable and ethical wine, what are the most interesting trends you're seeing right now, and is there anything listeners might find surprising?
Kathleen Willcox (10:16):
I think it all goes back to the human aspect. People are a lot more interested in supporting brands that do the right thing by their workers and by their community, but I also think it goes beyond that, and I'm seeing consumers slowly but surely more and more interested in supporting brands that actively hire LGBTQ, people of color, and also welcome people into the space that maybe have movement or other challenges that wouldn't necessarily make them obvious candidates for going on a wine tasting. I know that there are also some brands that are offering bilingual and bilingual tastings, and, also, this is separate, but it goes back to the first part of inclusivity, offering vineyard workers and people in the cellar educational opportunities and scholarship opportunities so that they can grow within the organization and not just stay at the same level. That makes it a better experience for everyone.
(11:25):
If someone who's out pruning understands why it's important to prune the grapes and what that leads to later in the cellar and in the glass, I think it benefits everyone, motivates everyone, and helps everyone understand that they're part of a bigger picture. Whereas before, I feel like the wine industry was very siloed. People who worked in the vineyards were in one section. The people who worked in the cellar were in another. The people in that back office were in another, and now I feel like there's a lot more interaction, and it's going to lead to better wine for all of us. It's something that the wine industry... I'm sure we've all read the depressing news about sales. We have to continue to innovate and change if we want to keep on growing as a business in a positive way.
Jess Baum (12:15):
What is so interesting is that the way that you're talking about wineries working together and the collaboration and the inclusion really reminds me of what we aim for on the vineyard itself, an ecosystem where all living beings can thrive, from the cover crop to the sheep to the grapes and the below-ground ecosystems that are required to support all of that. It's very similar talking about how to create a healthy farm organism and how to create a healthy business organism.
Kathleen Willcox (12:49):
I really agree, and I think that that also points to a larger issue that I've seen a lot more of in the wine industry lately, and it's as simple as looking at the soil and how to improve the soil because the way that we've been working the land in every industry for generations now is really depleting the land. Any form of chemical, but even just farming organically, can deplete the land after a while, so now we're finally understanding we need cover crops. Sometimes they need to be nitrogen-fixing, sometimes they need to do something else, and some of them are used to break up the soil and make the roots of the vines dig down deeper, especially in drought-prone areas. So it's really fascinating to see all of the changes that are happening, and I've really seen it explode. I'd be curious, have you seen an increase in interest just among... Even winemakers that you wouldn't necessarily think would have cover crops are all over it now.
Jess Baum (13:53):
Absolutely. It makes sense. It's good business sense. I think something that we see specifically with Regenerative Organic Certified, viticulture, and farming in general is an increase in resilience, and the thing about wine in California is that we are on the front lines of the climate crisis and we need resilience. We need adaptability. So last year, when we had pretty severe atmospheric rivers come through, our head of viticulture shared that we didn't lose a single vine, and that's due to the health of the soil and its capacity to buffer and to act as a sponge. The climate crisis is complicated. There's a reason we don't call it global warming anymore because it's so much more than just the temperature going up. It's the destabilization of our climate, which leads to both droughts and atmospheric rivers, and how do you create a farming system that can thrive in both?
Kathleen Willcox (14:50):
Exactly, and maybe in the same year. It's so extreme now that it's hard to know what's going to happen next. I think healthier soil that can soak in as much water as possible, then store it, and then withstand drought, that's what we're all looking for. It's great that in your case, you also have been doing the right, quote, unquote, "right kind of farming" for a long time, so you're reaping the benefits now.
Jess Baum (15:23):
There's many ways to do the right kind of farming, and something that is of particular interest to me is how these regenerative practices can transform harmful atmospheric carbon into helpful soil organic carbon, sequestering it back in the soil where it came from. We don't have great ways to measure that yet, but that is certainly a passion of mine and something that I always am reading about.
Kathleen Willcox (15:49):
That's a fascinating topic, and that's something that I'd love to learn more about. As you said, it's not something that we understand the science of yet completely, but is it through a combination of factors, or is it more about one cover crop style, or is it the sheep, or is it everything?
Jess Baum (16:08):
So it's everything, and we do understand how it happens. We just don't have a really solid way to measure it as far as greenhouse gas accounting, but what we do know is that plants are smart. They have evolved to harness natural technology and to utilize everything at their disposal to survive, just like all living beings have. So they create more sugars than they need through photosynthesis, and that turns into carbohydrates, carbon, and hydrogen combined, which they then store in their root system for a rainy day just in case they need it later. Those root exudates. What comes out of the roots creates a rhizosphere, a whole ecology of creatures that thrive in that environment and further help to support the structure of the soil, creating aggregation and pockets where carbon can be locked away and be helpful in the long term.
Kathleen Willcox (17:04):
That's amazing. It feels like magic, even though obviously it's science.
Jess Baum (17:10):
Absolutely, and I think it's really critical here to mention that the western world and modern farming has not invented these practices. These practices have been practiced by indigenous populations for generations. You mentioned sheep on the land or grazing animals in general serve a really specific purpose in these regenerative systems, where the stress of their consumption of the cover crop and the interaction of their hooves on the land requires the cover crop to be stressed and to pump up photosynthesis and sequester more carbon so that it can grow back stronger. You said it's not magic, it's science, but to me, science is magic.
Kathleen Willcox (17:51):
That's a great point, and I actually have never heard that the way that the sheep eat is part of the process. I've always heard people talk a lot about the deposits they make and their footwork, but that's really interesting, and that completely makes sense.
Jess Baum (18:16):
You recently wrote a series of articles called Wine's Most Inspiring People. Is there anything those people had in common?
Kathleen Willcox (18:24):
They all supported some members of their community, whether it was people that they went to volunteer with or if it was educational opportunities. They recognized that empowering everyone is important, and in the end, it makes the brand and the business stronger if everyone understands what's happening and has an opportunity to be educated in a number of different ways. I really loved how passionate they all were about inclusivity and bringing more voices and more people to the table, giving people the chance to share their voice. I really think that the wine industry has gone above and beyond what other major industries have done in terms of encouraging really progressive education.
Jess Baum (19:22):
Your answer gave me chills. I just love that. That what it takes to be an inspiring person is to inspire others rather than just seeking their own success.
Kathleen Willcox (19:35):
Yes. I do feel like, as a culture and as a world, we are moving toward bringing more voices to the table, and that is a more effective way of doing business. If you look at Fortune 500 companies that are more diverse, they make more money. If all you want to do is make more money, you don't even want to do the right thing. You should bring more voices to the table and more people to the table.
Jess Baum (20:00):
100%. We learn nothing in an echo chamber where we have one opinion repeated over and over again.
Kathleen Willcox (20:08):
Absolutely.
Jess Baum (20:09):
You live in upstate New York, an area that has world-class wineries but doesn't get a lot of credit as a wine region, and you also co-authored a book called Hudson Valley Wine: A History of Taste & Terroir. So what you may not know is that I will be moving to the Hudson Valley and will continue to work at Bonterra Organic Estates as a remote employee. So I get the best of both worlds, living in the Hudson Valley and getting to visit glorious Mendocino County. I'm so interested in terroir in terms of how place and farming practices impact what's in the bottle. So this is the book for me. What's unique about New York's terroir, and how has it been impacted by the change in climate?
Kathleen Willcox (20:49):
New York State is fascinating. The history goes way back to the first still continuously performing or operating winery, the Brotherhood, that is in the Hudson Valley. There've been a lot of challenges, but I would say that now, with climate change, it's actually helped. I hate to say that because it just feels gross considering how many challenges other regions are going through, but it's much easier now. Riesling is really the signature grape of the Finger Lakes, which is probably the most well-known region, but the Hudson Valley and Long Island, especially, those are also becoming really world-class regions. One thing that's interesting about New York, though, I think one of the challenges is that, especially in the Hudson Valley, you can't have enormous vineyards because the pockets of land are just so much smaller. They're carved up by the landscape itself.
(21:52):
So that's one challenge. The extreme winters that we can get in the Finger Lakes, it's not as extreme as it used to be, and they've come up with a lot of clever ways of protecting and insulating the vines because, obviously, if it goes below a certain temperature, the vines will die. I've been really excited to see the Cabernet Franc movement in the Finger Lakes in the Hudson Valley and Long Island, and just to see the differences in the terroir. Long Island, you get this influence, of course, from the Atlantic, and then the Finger Lakes, you have the lake effect. So it's like being in a banana belt around the lakes where it's just warmer naturally. In the summer when it's 100 degrees outside, in other areas, it's maybe 10 degrees colder when you get the constant wind from the lake. So it really keeps the grapes fresh and bright, even if it's extreme heat during the day.
Jess Baum (22:54):
It's interesting to watch the way the climate crisis affects these burgeoning new regions. Not that the Finger Lakes or New York is new.
Kathleen Willcox (23:02):
No, but I mean, the fact is, the grapes didn't always ripen up here and in New York in general. They just didn't. So you get a different level of quality now.
Jess Baum (23:14):
I appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today, Kathleen.
Kathleen Willcox (23:18):
I've really enjoyed talking with you, and I can't wait to meet up with you and find out more about the next stage of your journey.
Elizabeth Archer (23:44):
Thank you for listening to the Soil to Soul podcast, hosted by Jess Baum and produced by me, Elizabeth Archer, right here in Mendocino County on behalf of Bonterra Organic Estates, the largest regenerative organic winery in the United States. To learn more and to get 20% off your wine order, visit bonterra.com and use the promo code SOILTOSOUL. We're especially proud of our estate collection, comprising four affordable and exceptional Regenerative Organic Certified wines from our Hopland Vineyards in Mendocino County. Original music for the podcast was composed by Mendocino County musician Julian Sterling. Thanks again to today's guest, Kathleen Willcox. To learn more about Kathleen, find her on LinkedIn and Instagram at Kathleen Willcox. If you liked this episode, please rate, review, and share our podcast to help others find it too. Next week on the podcast, we'll talk with Brian Freedman, a wine and spirits writer, educator, and author of Crushed: How a Changing Climate Is Altering the Way We Drink. See you then.